How do you think Agile is evolving since its inception in 2001?
I think agile has been evolving steadily, although not always in the way we would like to see.
Hierarchy
One of the central ideas expressed in the agile manifesto, and reinforced through the agile values and principles, is a shift from the traditional top-down management structures to a decentralized environment where decision-making is pushed down to the experts doing the work.
Sure, leadership and executive teams are best positioned to make decisions around strategy, the future of the organization, and the vision for the product, but we want the people who have the most skill, experience, and expertise about how things should be done to make the decisions about how something should be done.
The thinking is that those who are closest to the market and customers, can make decisions that empower us, as an organization, to adapt and respond most effectively.
If the last time an executive spoke to a customer was when they were a software developer, we don’t want them making live, real-time decisions about the customer environment. We want the developers who are dealing with customers daily to make those decisions.
This hasn’t been happening.
Even the most progressive organizations still embrace a top-down hierarchy where senior managers tell junior managers what to do, and those junior managers in turn pass those instructions down to the people working at the coalface.
Many teams, although they have adopted agile, played no role in that decision, nor did they have an option to help choose the agile framework that would best suit their application. It was simply imposed on them along with a set of control-and-command tools to track and manage productivity.
Agile 2.0
We are seeing movement in the transition from traditional management to agile leadership.
I think this is the next area that we will see massive leaps of progress. Organizations are beginning to understand that a team doing scrum is not the same as developing agile capability throughout the organization.
It needs more than a single team. It requires leadership, suppliers, partners, and execution teams to develop agile capabilities and demonstrate agile behaviours.
The concept of ‘rewilding’ agile is getting a lot of attention because people recognize that we need to go back to basics when it comes to agile. Revisit the agile values and principles and stay true to the spirit of the agile manifesto.
Creating products and services that truly delight customers and being able to adapt and respond effectively to disruption or opportunities. That’s the goal. It isn’t about embracing a new style of working to replace an old style of working, it is about embracing responsiveness to opportunity and threats.
Getting out of our own way.
At the turn of the 20th century, we figured out how best to do something and then instructed everyone else to do it the same way.
To ensure that happened, we had supervisors watching every move, and managers supervising supervisors. We created processes, systems, checks and balances to ensure that nobody but the most senior people were able to make decisions or act independently.
As that evolved over time, monolithic structures of command-and-control were created that ensured we couldn’t take a single step out of line without multiple people approving that step.
If the ship needs to go from point A to point B, in a straight line, that’s a great idea.
If the ship needs to adapt and pivot based on conditions, new destinations, or to avoid traps and pitfalls, you’re likely to see that ship sink before it moves an inch off course.
That’s what we have now. Legacy organizations that are so hamstrung by their own processes and systems that people are defeated before they begin to scratch the surface of change. They simply can’t adapt or respond to positive or negative events in the market.
Agile embraces lightweight frameworks that allow organizations to get out of their own way.
To create hyper creative, collaborative, and innovative environments where people can respond to data and feedback, create the most valuable solutions, and resolve the most compelling problems quickly and effectively.
This is where I see the next big shift in agile.
Executive and leadership teams, in collaboration with stakeholders and suppliers/partners transforming the way they do business to facilitate greater agility
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How do I think agile is evolving since its inception in 2001? I think it’s been evolving steadily, although often unfortunately not in the way we would like.
I think one of the whole purposes of agile and the agile manifesto and the ideas behind it, forget the names of the things, right? The ideas behind it is that we’re trying to move away from those top-down steering departmental organizations towards something that’s more decentralized and democratized, right? So that we can respond better to what’s happening in the market, and that’s just not been happening. Most organizations, even those that say that they’re doing agile, they even I would look at and say, yeah, they’re doing pretty well, right? Are actually still hierarchical steering and budget comes from the top type of organizations.
People aren’t making that leap, which I think it is a leap from steering towards decentralization. I think that’s the evolution that’s happening now. You’re seeing a lot of movements now talking about agile 2.0, talking about rewilding of agile, right? And those ideas are around let’s kind of get back to the original ideas, which is getting rid of these monolithic processes that are perhaps getting in the way of the standardized processes, which are getting in the way of our ability to deliver value to our customers and engage with our market in a way that is dynamic and fast, right?
And that I think is the new struggle, is how do we get back to those topics? I think one of the things that I’ve been trying to do is use less agile terminology, right? Because most people I think are fed up of hearing agile this, ideal that, mindset this, mindset that, and they think it’s just all a big pile of bollocks now because it’s not worked for them.
But the reality is that they haven’t been doing it, which is part of what’s not working for them, right? It causes more friction to try and create decentralization and democratization within the bounds of an organization that is inherently command and control. You’re just going to cause lots of friction, and then things aren’t going to happen in command and control wins.
So I think that, yeah, I think that’s the big change or the big push that we’re looking at now and how agile has changed. It’s gone through that phase of not actually providing a lot of value or nibbling at the edges of providing value for organizations, and now we’re starting to see more organizations move to embracing more of the underlying concepts of empiricism, self-organization, decentralization, and democratization.
How do you think Agile is evolving since its inception in 2001?
I think it’s been evolving steadily, although often unfortunately not in the way we would like.
I think that one of the whole purposes of Agile and the Agile Manifesto and the ideas behind it, forget the names of the things, right? The ideas behind it, is that we’re trying to move away from those top-down steering departmental organizations towards something that’s more decentralized and democratized, right? So that we can respond better to what’s happening in the market. And that’s just not been happening.
Most organizations, even those that say that they’re doing agile, that even I would look at and say, yeah, they’re doing pretty well, right? Are actually still hierarchical steering and budget comes from the top type of organizations.
People aren’t making that leap, which I think it is a leap from steering towards decentralization. And I think that’s the evolution that’s happening now. You’re seeing a lot of movements now talking about Agile 2.0, talking about rewilding of Agile, right? And those ideas are around, let’s kind of get back to the original ideas which is getting rid of these monolithic processes that are perhaps getting in the way of the standardized processes which are getting in the way of our ability to deliver value to our customers and engage with our market in a way that is dynamic and fast, right?
And that I think is the new struggle is how do we get back to those topics. And I think one of the things that I’ve been trying to do is use less agile terminology, right? Because most people I think are fed up of hearing agile this, agile that, mindset this, mindset that, and they think it’s just all a big pile of bollocks now because it’s not worked for them.
But the reality is that they haven’t been doing it, which is part of what’s not working for them, right? It causes more friction to try and create decentralization and democratization within the bounds of an organization that is inherently command and control. You’re just going to cause lots of friction and then things aren’t going to happen and command and control wins.
So I think that, yeah, I think that’s the big change or the big push that we’re looking at now and how Agile has changed, it’s gone through that phase of not actually providing a lot of value or nibbling at the edges of providing value for organizations and now we’re starting to see more organizations move to embracing more of the underlying concepts of empiricism, self-organization, decentralization and democratization.
¿Cómo cree que está evolucionando Agile desde su creación en 2001?
Creo que ha ido evolucionando constantemente, aunque a menudo, por desgracia, no de la forma que nos gustaría.
Creo que uno de los propósitos de Agile y el Manifiesto Agile y las ideas detrás de él, olvida los nombres de las cosas, ¿verdad? Las ideas detrás de él, es que estamos tratando de alejarnos de esas organizaciones departamentales de dirección de arriba hacia abajo hacia algo que es más descentralizado y democratizado, ¿verdad? Para que podamos responder mejor a lo que está sucediendo en el mercado. Y eso no ha estado sucediendo.
La mayoría de las organizaciones, incluso las que dicen que están haciendo ágil, que incluso me gustaría ver y decir, sí, lo están haciendo bastante bien, ¿verdad? Son en realidad todavía la dirección jerárquica y el presupuesto viene de la parte superior tipo de organizaciones.
La gente no está haciendo ese salto, que creo que es un salto de la dirección hacia la descentralización. Y creo que esa es la evolución que está sucediendo ahora. Usted está viendo un montón de movimientos ahora hablando de Agile 2.0, hablando de rewilding de Agile, ¿verdad? Y esas ideas giran en torno a volver a las ideas originales, que es deshacerse de estos procesos monolíticos que tal vez se interponen en el camino de los procesos estandarizados que se interponen en el camino de nuestra capacidad para ofrecer valor a nuestros clientes y participar con nuestro mercado de una manera que es dinámica y rápida, ¿verdad?
Y creo que la nueva lucha es cómo volver a esos temas. Y creo que una de las cosas que he estado tratando de hacer es utilizar una terminología menos ágil, ¿verdad? Porque creo que la mayoría de la gente está harta de oír ágil esto, ágil lo otro, mentalidad esto, mentalidad lo otro, y piensan que todo eso es un montón de tonterías porque no les ha funcionado.
Pero la realidad es que no lo han estado haciendo, que es parte de lo que no está funcionando para ellos, ¿verdad? Causa más fricción tratar de crear descentralización y democratización dentro de los límites de una organización que es inherentemente de mando y control. Solo vas a causar mucha fricción y entonces las cosas no van a suceder y el mando y control gana.
Así que creo que, sí, creo que ese es el gran cambio o el gran impulso que estamos viendo ahora y cómo Agile ha cambiado, ha pasado por esa fase de no proporcionar realmente una gran cantidad de valor o mordisqueando los bordes de proporcionar valor para las organizaciones y ahora estamos empezando a ver más organizaciones se mueven a abrazar más de los conceptos subyacentes de empirismo, la auto-organización, la descentralización y la democratización.
Comment pensez-vous que la méthode Agile évolue depuis sa création en 2001 ?
Je pense qu’il évolue régulièrement, même si souvent, malheureusement, ce n’est pas de la manière dont nous le souhaiterions.
L’un des objectifs d’Agile, du Manifeste Agile et des idées qui le sous-tendent, oubliez le nom des choses, n’est-ce pas ? Les idées sous-jacentes, c’est que nous essayons de nous éloigner de ces organisations départementales à direction descendante pour aller vers quelque chose de plus décentralisé et démocratisé, n’est-ce pas ? Nous pouvons ainsi mieux répondre à ce qui se passe sur le marché. Et ce n’est pas le cas.
La plupart des organisations, même celles qui disent qu’elles sont agiles, que je regarde et dis que oui, elles se débrouillent plutôt bien, n’est-ce pas ? sont en fait encore des organisations de type hiérarchique, où le budget vient d’en haut.
Les gens ne font pas ce saut, alors que je pense qu’il s’agit d’un saut de la direction vers la décentralisation. Et je pense que c’est l’évolution qui se produit actuellement. Vous voyez beaucoup de mouvements qui parlent d’Agile 2.0, de rewilding d’Agile, n’est-ce pas ? Il s’agit de revenir à l’idée de départ, à savoir se débarrasser de ces processus monolithiques qui entravent peut-être les processus normalisés qui nous empêchent de fournir de la valeur à nos clients et de nous engager sur notre marché d’une manière dynamique et rapide, n’est-ce pas ?
Et je pense que le nouveau défi est de savoir comment revenir à ces sujets. Et je pense que l’une des choses que j’ai essayé de faire, c’est d’utiliser une terminologie moins agile, n’est-ce pas ? Parce que la plupart des gens en ont assez d’entendre agile ceci, agile cela, état d’esprit ceci, état d’esprit cela, et ils pensent que tout cela n’est qu’un gros tas de conneries parce que ça n’a pas marché pour eux. La réalité est qu’ils ne l’ont pas fait, ce qui ne fonctionne pas pour eux, n’est-ce pas ?
Essayer de créer une décentralisation et une démocratisation dans les limites d’une organisation qui, par nature, est une organisation de commandement et de contrôle, provoque davantage de frictions. Vous allez créer beaucoup de frictions et les choses ne se feront pas et le commandement et le contrôle l’emporteront.
Je pense donc que, oui, je pense que c’est le grand changement ou la grande poussée que nous observons actuellement et comment Agile a changé, il est passé par cette phase de ne pas vraiment fournir beaucoup de valeur ou de grignoter les bords de la fourniture de valeur pour les organisations et maintenant nous commençons à voir plus d’organisations adopter plus de concepts sous-jacents de l’empirisme, de l’auto-organisation, de la décentralisation et de la démocratisation.
Como você acha que o Agile está evoluindo desde sua criação em 2001?
Acho que ele está evoluindo de forma constante, embora, infelizmente, muitas vezes não da maneira que gostaríamos.
Eu acho… Um dos propósitos do Agile, do Manifesto Agile e das ideias por trás dele, esqueça os nomes das coisas, certo? As ideias por trás disso é que estamos tentando nos afastar dessas organizações departamentais de direção de cima para baixo em direção a algo que seja mais descentralizado e democratizado, certo? Para que possamos responder melhor ao que está acontecendo no mercado. E isso simplesmente não está acontecendo.
A maioria das organizações, mesmo aquelas que dizem que estão agindo de forma ágil, que até eu olharia e diria que sim, estão indo muito bem, certo? Na verdade, ainda são organizações do tipo hierárquico, com direção e orçamento vindos do topo.
As pessoas não estão dando esse salto, que eu acho que é um salto da direção para a descentralização. E acho que essa é a evolução que está acontecendo agora. Você está vendo muitos movimentos agora falando sobre o Agile 2.0, falando sobre a reformulação do Agile, certo? E essas ideias giram em torno de: vamos voltar às ideias originais, que é livrar-se desses processos monolíticos que talvez estejam atrapalhando os processos padronizados que estão atrapalhando nossa capacidade de agregar valor aos nossos clientes e interagir com nosso mercado de forma dinâmica e rápida, certo?
E acho que essa é a nova luta: como voltar a esses tópicos. E acho que uma das coisas que tenho tentado fazer é usar uma terminologia menos ágil, certo? Porque acho que a maioria das pessoas está cansada de ouvir “ágil” isso, “ágil” aquilo, “mentalidade” isso, “mentalidade” aquilo, e acham que tudo isso é uma grande besteira porque não funcionou para elas.
Mas a realidade é que eles não estão fazendo isso, o que é parte do que não está funcionando para eles, certo? Tentar criar descentralização e democratização dentro dos limites de uma organização que é inerentemente de comando e controle causa mais atrito. Você só vai causar muito atrito e as coisas não vão acontecer, e o comando e controle vence.
Portanto, acho que essa é a grande mudança ou o grande impulso que estamos observando agora e como o Agile mudou. Ele passou por essa fase de não agregar muito valor ou de ficar nas bordas da agregação de valor para as organizações e agora estamos começando a ver mais organizações adotando mais os conceitos subjacentes de empirismo, auto-organização, descentralização e democratização.
